ipe hidden fasteners problems

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Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. Who knows. Ipe Deck Tiles can be a perfect solution for those condition. Ipe and Cumaru in particular have been known to burn out many a drill motor. - Any pros or cons favoring one over the other? Your opinion/thoughts on angled deck screw installation such as Kreg or Camo systems. Agriculture, Cattle and Plantation Farms are the largest contributors to deforestation. Furthermore, the type of material used, AND the grain pattern of the wood, assuming the decking is wood, also play a significant role. It makes the deck look natural and gives it abundant character. Both of these can be remedied by replacing the boards. Its important to understand that exterior hardwood decking will move (expand and contract). Premium Grade Ipe Decking usually costs between $3.20 and 4.50 per lineal foot. Color options Black, Grey (if wanting to let Ipe turn grey), Brown. Nick, would you say that the repairs you had to make were caused by an improper installed job in the first place? I can definitely recommended BWP and will not hesitate to use them for future projects! Consider the fastening method. A wider board would need an additional screw. Ipe Deck Maintenance: New Decking is Not a Finished Product, How to Prevent Cracks in Your Large Timbers, Tigerwood Decking or Ipe or Cumaru: Tropical Decking Choices. Adequate under-deck ventilation on three sides of the deck. Ipe naturally varies in color, so the new ones will blend in nicely with the old ones. I had the displeasure of attempting to do business with one of BWDs largest competitors. I ordered a large quantity of Ipe wood from these guys and I was very pleased with it. I have reached out several times. Ipe is too hard to drill a stainless steel screw directly into. I recommend this company without hesitation. The Mataverde Hidden Deck Fastener is black for lower visibility, stainless steel for higher strength and durability, and longer for superior holding power. Since retiring in 2013, we began in. Also, suppliers often run out during Brazils wet season. It is found from the southern tip of South America to northern Mexico and in the Caribbean Islands. It applies to nearly all wood decking and flooring. In fact, fix as many moisture related problems before constructing any outdoor deck. our money back. The term Brazilian Hardwoods just sounds expensive. Maybe not. Harvesting Ipe is limited to about 5 months of the year. So, using narrower deck boards helps control the size of the space between deck boards. Without maintaining an annual oil regimen, the boards will turn a beautiful silvery-grey. Use End Wax. The. With limited ventilation, face screws are the best option. 100% satisfied. (like some other similar named online sites) I felt comfortable ordering from them and getting shipped to florida. Oversight and enforcement against illegally sourced Ipe have expanded greatly, in recent decades. Youll get better product, support and pricing. Your email address will not be published. Most reliable sources place Ipe in the top 10 of hardest woods. Remember to register the warranty within 45 days of purchase. Anything less can result in lower performance. Leaving the understructure open will allow more airflow. We were not the first to have had issues and Sam guided us through their process, explained the delivery and promised us a beautiful product. Please explain reasons why you think boards cup other than moisture related issues, I would love to become more informed. Not only is it strong, but it also installs fast and covers a portion of the joist from weathering below. Each deck fastener system method has pros and cons. The new Camo Edge Fastening System is not only much less expensive but also is a good intermediary between face screwing and hidden clips. All work is from under the deck, which is not an option nor would I ever in a million years make it one. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. Deck Tiles are manufactured tiles made up of 7-8 smaller Ipe boards. This ensures free air flow on all four sides of the board. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." On a deck using face screwing on joists spaced at 16 will one screw per joist be sufficient ? Im getting ready to install 1000 sq feet of IPE decking all at a 45 degree angle to the joists. Some clip designs make it difficult or impossible to access the heads of the screws. I have had nothing but good experiences. The wood was carefully packed and delivered safely to my driveway exactly when they said they would. But they are not the right fastener for all decks. Moisture on the back side of any wood will cause it to cup. Check our their videos! So the question remains: which fastening system do you want to use for your next deck? They were actually friendly and helpful.what a novel idea. Repairing Drywall After Removing Wallpaper, SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, How to Finish Drywall Around a Shower Enclosure, Reusable Flood Bags for Fast Bulk-Water Control, Keep Craft Alive Podcast: Ep.18, Kate Hersey and the Minnesota Tool Library, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, 10 Steps to Install Crown Molding on Cabinets, Choosing the Right Construction Tape for the Job, Pretty Good House Book Excerpt: Copper Farmhouse, 10 Dos and Don'ts for Electric In-Floor Heat, Framing Stairs to an Out-of-Level Landing, Good-Looking and Long-Lasting Traditional Gutters, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: William B. Installing a tropical hardwood deck with a species like Ipe or Cumaru is done the same way as your typical pressure treated Pine or even composite deck: Ipe clip and other hidden fasteners or face screwed. Consider Garapa and Massaranduba for consistency in color. This checking goes away again once the boards gain moisture and expand. Manufactured decking boards, like plastics and composites, are not only consistent, they are EXACTLY the same. Find a reliable source online that will crate and ship it to your jobsite. Responsibly sourced Ipe helps maintain low-carbon emitting jobs in the Amazon and represents the only 100% natural, biodegradable, recyclable, chemical free and reusable decking materials. I never implied what you just inferred. After receiving your shipment, leave the boards on the jobsite, outdoors for 10-14 days until the moisture level remains constant. Dont oil the bottom of the boards unless you plan on seeing them from below. Buy the plugs. Good point. Ipe is, undoubtedly, one of the hardest woods in the world. Most legally and responsibly harvested Ipe is sourced from the regions Para and Mato Grasso, Brazil. A good quality decking board that has been carefully air dried will always be more stable in the long run and the type of fastening you do makes no difference. Other Brazilian Hardwood Species offer different colors and more consistency. Plastic and Composite alternatives fade overtime and cannot be brought back to the original conditions. And how to determine if Ipe is right for your deck project? Did i mention they got this order out weeks faster than the other big guys could? Moisture on the back side of any wood will cause it to cup. Make sure your deck design meets the requirements before investing in a beautiful deck. Allow space above the ground and beneath the deck. Decking boards should never be installed directly on subfloor, concrete, soil or any flat, nonporous surface. Havent used them personally but I like them and would prefer that type of installation as a good compromise between face screwing and hidden clips. When the demand for legal Ipe falls, illegal log poaching increases. Fortunately for everyone, that isnt the case. But Mataverde is a registered trademark of General Woodcraft, Inc. Biggest Problems with Hidden Deck Fasteners, Decks with more than 30 (minimum) clearance from the bottom of the deck to the ground. Required fields are marked *. Thats why proper on-site acclimation of exterior wood is so important before installation. We would recommend them and we do not recommend just anyone, only the best of the best! I've seen whole boards buckled up, leaving the screws behind. A high hardness rating lends to incredible longevity, durability and resistance to insects, fire, moisture penetration, mold and rot. LOL! Thermally Modified Hem-Fir Siding Gallery, Thermally Modified Hardwood Siding Gallery, 6 Things You Should Know About Hidden Fasteners for Decking, Thicker decking (21-mm or 5/4 nominal thickness) works best, Narrower decking (4 nominal) works best with hidden fasteners, The closer your deck is to the ground, the more important using thicker and narrower deck boards become for best performance. So how can you not have to pre-drill a screw when using Ipe? I could write a novel about my frustrations with them. Hardness is important to a materials longevity and durability. The fact that the boards can move means that they are free to warp, twist, and open uneven gaps on your surface. Long lengths, straight and clear. While Ipe is the most durable material decking option, they can still get damaged. Would definitely use them again! This will not affect the structural integrity, longevity, or durability of the wood. This is an oft overlooked or improperly addressed process for Ipe Decking installation. In fact, many customers prefer to let their Ipe go grey. While the popularity of hidden fasteners doesntseem to be diminishing anytime soon. I have come to expect. The best wood you can buy all you have to do is stop by and let us tell you about it. Ipe has no chemicals, is 100% recyclable, reusable, and biodegradable. The problem solving on this team is impressive to say the least. Do NOT enclose the plastic such that it traps the air inside. Tue, Oct 30, 2018 @ 05:10 AM. Always buy Ipe from suppliers who buy directly from Brazil. "I just see wood reacting predictably and consistently, under the same laws of physics that effect other materials". Great customer service, very friendly & helped us with our deck choice from start to finish! We have enjoyed working with Eric and his teams products for a while now and are very happy with his customer service, selection and pricing. Hello, These tiny cracks are known as checks. There are many projects where hidden fasteners should not be used. Thanks. For 2-by, or for 1x6, I'd recommend face screwing and plugging. Ipe maintenance is only required to maintain the natural brown colors. When moisture becomes trapped underneath decking boards and the face of the boards dry, it creates a higher moisture content under the boards than above the boards. Deckwise Ipe Clip vs Camo Clips Best Ipe Fastener Battle. I finally gave up and luckily stumbled across BWD online. Some customers are put off by the maintenance associated with Ipe. The Deckmaster system is notorious for cupping also, if an improper installation is done, too short of screws, deck built too close to ground with no vapor barrier or ventalation. This can lead to an uneven deck surface. Typically, with decking, the top/face of the board dips in the center and the sides rise. can be a beautiful design element for a deck project - if your deck qualifies. Acclimation is the process of becoming accustomed to a new climate or new conditions. Your deck will look better and perform better. For complete installation recommendations please visit our installation page. If moisture is not properly draining on the ground under the deck, consider grading the soil and using a waterproof membrane to prevent moisture penetration into the soil. Hidden fasteners leave an unblemished beautiful face but most feel they take longer to install and leave the decking free to move about throughout the year. Of course, opinions vary wildly from one decking professional to another. Definitely a customer for life! Any pros or cons favoring one over the other? Suitable Projects forHidden Deck Fasteners, Best Size Deck Boards for Hidden Fasteners. "I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. Hidden deck fasteners are a nice way to keep the surface of your deck looking clear and unencumbered. This is what I did on my deck 8 years ago and I havent had a problem. Eb-ty and Ipe-clip are installed on the top of the joists, but thanks for the info anyways. Truth is, as long as youre purchasing responsibly sourced Ipe, youre supporting essential, low-carbon emitting jobs in the Amazon and working against illegal timber poachers. The fine folks at Ipe Clip have a very helpful animation illustrating this movement. The general rule of thumb to maintain Ipes beautiful brown colors is an annual application of a UV Oil, with Messmers UV Plus, and periodic cleaning depending on conditions. I need to install it with a hidden fastening system. In general using 2 screws shouldnt pose too much problem with restricting wood movement and the added stability is something that is more important in this case. during normal business hours. My order was fairly complicated and they took the time to go over each and every piece with me. Thus preserving the whole reason of hidden clips, by keeping them hidden. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(112655, '40fcb9f6-d0f5-4338-aa95-259e693755bb', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Would you like to see some actual hardwood decking? The added density and extreme hardness of tropical hardwoods is very tough on drills, drill bits, and screws. Follow the suppliers installation guidelines. Air-Dried (AD) Or Kiln-Dried (KD) Hardwood Decking: Proper Maintenance and Cleaning of Ipe Decking, No (better securing by going through wood), For use with pre-grooved boards or biscuit cut. The High-End composites, like Enhance Natural by Trex, are significantly more expensive than Ipe. Dont close in the sides of the deck, where possible. If you install a IPE deck with wet lumber and it cups in the first two weeks, this is because the wood was too wet and it dried unevenly. I shot 3" SS screws through the face once I shaved off the edges. Skip the brokers guys call Brazilian wood depo. The benefits of being one of the hardest woods in the world are numerous. Be sure that the Ipe is Premium Grade. Of the top 10, Ipe is one of only three or four that are commercially available. Also, plugging an entire deck can make replacing damaged boards more difficult. I manage a brand new apartment community in Gwinnett County and we have a HUGE sundeck behind the pool overlooking a lake. Use this process to sand and seal any damaged drywall before priming and painting. If you do not have prime open ventilation more airflow is better. Some common examples might include, covering a concrete pad without a frame system, a rooftop deck with waterproof membrane, or areas that have a maximum elevation requirement may not allow for suitable airflow. owners have been exceptionally helpful with advice about installing and caring for their products. Of course if you build your entire deck out of Ipe, from posts to joists to decking boards, you will still end up drilling into the harder wood. Please visit MataverdeDecking.com for additional information about hidden deck fasteners, decking installation, hardwood decking options, deck galleries and more. What if the conditions are not suitable to achieve suitable airflow and moisture equalization? It is this seasonal movement that many hidden fastener critics latch on to as the primary reason for face screwing Ipe decking. The short answer; no, no, and no. These boards are very resistant to cupping and are a great solution for these types of conditions. The material was of poor quality, delivery issues (3x's) and eventually we got it returned and. We will add another photo when it is done. They exceeded our expectations! You are absolutely correct that trying to fasten the heck out of it won't work, but at the same time, there are more factors at work than you allude to. There are harder species of wood, but not many. Written by It also secures through the board creating a tighter bond between the joist, board, and hidden fastening system. We have been buying material from Brazilian Wood depot for over 10 years and couldn't be happier with their service and products. This means suppliers must plan ahead, the best they can, to prepare inventory for the wet season. These boards fade over time and cannot be refinished. Our modest country home is located on ten acres in West Central Georgia literally in site of Pine Mountain ridge. The wood was delivered on time and was excellent quality. Do you still recommend only one screw per joist for ipe deck installation? It does not affect the durability, longevity or water-resistant benefits. Of course, much of Brazil is covered in natural rain forests. Any deck that is 30 or closer to the ground requires face screws for best fastening performance. Was the deck built too close to the ground without a proper vapor barrier installed, or the boards not back stained, or no allowance for a passive ventilation system? earnest planning our deck. Faster installation than methods requiring pre-drilling. In comparison, composites are not biodegradable or recyclable which contributes to the plastic pollution, worldwide. Standard chop saw blades work just fine on Ipe. Wood is wood, not steel or plastic. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. Need some help finding the best decking for your project? Suppliers can often provide these upon request. I emailed them and gave them a call and it was like a breath of fresh air. Ipe is an extremely common tree. The quality of the wood is second to none and I cant wait to see the finished deck. They are also required to follow state specified re-growth regulations. It seems obvious therefore to spend less time drilling through the hard decking boards and focusing on drilling to fasten an Ipe clip into the softer deck sub-structure. In fact, using hidden deck fasteners inappropriately is a formula for failure. As a woodworker, furniture maker, podcaster, blogger, teacher, and Director of Marketing for one of the oldest Lumber companies in the country, he really can't stop talking about wood and the beautiful ways it can be used. with care questions and Sam was quick to respond and extremely knowledgeable and helpful. Some customers are unsure what to expect from Ipe, in terms of color. Shannon is a wood nerd, nuff said. We get a lot of people asking about hidden clip systems for their Ipe Decking. Then wood moves seasonally afterwards (based on moisture content). Eb-Ty can be laborious, it can slow installation down over what you might be used to. Always require that your decking is crated. Here's a short list or decks where you should not use hidden deck fasteners: Hidden deck fasteners can be a beautiful design element for a deck project - if your deck qualifies. Filed Under: Docks & Decks, Ipe Wood, News. It doesnt always do the best with exotic hardwood like Ipe, due to the thin clip sometimes coming loose. For 14, yes I think one screw per joist is sufficient. The key to a successful deck install that will remain stable and beautiful for years to come lies in the wood selection and planning for movement. That being said, most of our customers prefer an Ipe clip hidden fastener when using tropical hardwoods for purely cosmetic reasons. Thats because Ipe is selectively sourced, not clear-cut. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(112655, '5f171767-bd93-4fbb-8834-180cfa8de9b2', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Many of our clients love the look of a hidden deck fastener on their hardwood deck installation. This article will put the kibosh on all unanswered concerns and speculation. Read on to learn the truth about these common Ipe Decking problems. The deck had been built with a rain catch/slide beneath it - the deck is about 12 feet up and over a patio. Not only that but it installs with a 3/32, 5/32, and 1/4 gap spacing making it tight but allowing for airflow. The best part is, you can always bring them back to their original brown colors. As usual, make sure you are purchasing Premium Grade Ipe. We love the look & quality IPE wood from Brazilian Wood Depot. It is important to understand why boards cup. Ultimately with so many variables to consider, one is bound to see a wide variety of opinions on the topic of face screws versus Ipe clip hidden fasteners. Properly pitched and drained ground below the deck. I'm not poking fun at you, but that is kind of funny. They have supplied the ipe wood boards and the 2' square ipe deck tiles for a bridge and two rooftop terraces for our residential building. Like all natural woods, not every board can be perfectly straight. We look forward to using them, Ricardo Russo, Brazilian World Wildlife Fund. The fibers contract faster on one side which creates a cup. If you are looking for a tighter spacing the there is no tighter spacing recommended than Deckwise Ipe Clip having 3/32 gap spacing option creates just enough airflow if ventilated properly. along and mislead (if not outright lied to). It is speculated that the moisture did not drain completely, though the corrogated panels were well sloped, and there was no standing water, but air might not have been allowed to circulate thoroughly, exacerbating the problem. As for plugs for some of the face screwing that will have to be done, do most people make their own plugs with a plug cutter or do you buy the pre-packaged ones? Some deck projects require the stronger fastening power of face screws. What are these lots of reasons? Rose, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Choose your stock wisely and tell your lumber provider exactly where and how you will be using the lumber. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. When you buy, legally, youre supporting these positive attributes. Request a free hidden deck fastener sample today: hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(112655, 'ec1a63a3-9eca-45db-9f67-3ab4196cc273', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Where Shouldnt You Use Hidden Deck Fasteners? http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=44114.1. When you purchase legal Ipe, it is a small contribution against lumber poachers. The 10-in. Great place friendly people that get you unloaded as quickly as possible . Moisture is the biggest enemy of all exterior woods. The solution is simple. Sam and Eric are extremely knowledgeable about all hardwood Brazilian wood decking and siding. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. All around good company to do business with. Great service and advise.. saves me a lot of money vs competitor Advance Lumber. Great place, I live in Chattanooga and have made the drive many times to buy from here. Use Google Maps to help your decision. You described a failure of a product due to an improper installation to a T, yet you end up faulting the fastening system even after describing a situation where the contractor blew it. Get inspired! Once you get in a groove, things can move alongbut the starting process can be slow. Be sure to always leave 1/8th inch gap between the boards. this from your company over the years. They later send me a small order that went just as well. When face screwing Ipe decking, you can rely on the natural flexibility of the decking boards to secure them to the joists. *Hardwood finish application required for color maintenance but not to maintain durability. The Ipe decking quality they showed is of the highest grade, and they are responsible Eco-friendly suppliers. Many customers feel that going with plastic or composite decking is more cost effective than Ipe. Depending on where you are in the United States or Canada, Ipe can be difficult or impossible to find, nearby. - Cupping is not a randomly occurring phenomena, it is a cause/effect symptom of an improper deck build. Cover the materials, loosely, with plastic or tarp. They made special arrangements to meet us because we were unable to get there. We certify our quality lumber with the RealWood tag and stand behind our best choice fasteners, finishes and accessories as being the highest quality products for the task at the best price. Installs fast, but does not secure through the wood creating the potential for more movement when boards expand and contract. While this can be the case, especially with the lowest grades of manufactured decking, it usually isnt. IPE from Brazilian Wood Depot transformed my home! The deck was built with Tiger Wood from Brazilian Wood Depot and is BEAUTIFUL. Our primary objective was a deck that would require minimum maintenance and be as durable as possible, and affordable. Its not unusual for environmentally minded consumers to be put off by the idea that purchasing Ipe will harm our planets natural rain forests. Doesn't change my opinion, though. If you cant control the moisture below your deck, natural wood deck boards are very likely to cup and behave poorly. The maintenance for Ipe Decking can either be low or none. I'm a paint Contractor, I have used Brazilian Wood Depot for years. Again, oil is only meant to protect against UV and maintain the color. I highly recommend this place if, you have any decking needs. But lets say you live in Colorado and you ordered Ipe from Brazilian Wood Depot, in Atlanta GA. You will absolutely want to take heed of these simple tips. hbspt.cta._relativeUrls=true;hbspt.cta.load(112655, 'f2c8e7e7-9d60-4b3c-8d44-3ea3c2ff3f0f', {"useNewLoader":"true","region":"na1"}); Looking for some great deck design ideas? For other projects, fastening your deck boards with screws, may be a more secure and better option. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. Ordered few thousand lf of cumaru from sam (who's super helpful ) at brazillian wood depot. BWD has excellent wood products, prompt & courteous service and delivery, and responsive customer service. A good dealer will help you determine the best species, thickness and width to ensure a beautiful deck now and in the future. This also confirms legitimacy of the product. The hidden fasteners will leave one edge of the board free to expand and contract in varying weather while still holding them firmly to the joists. This extra screw acts as some insurance against cupping and probably why you see so many installations done this way. Can't thank you guys enough. This causes the bottom to expand and the top to contract and cup.

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