What say the peanut gallery? After some brutal screaming barfies in single digit temps, I haven't used leashes since. I think Allied Petzl will still sell them on demand, if you cant jugaad them from abroad. It has always seemed bizarre to me that we would have multiple pairs of crampons that essentially have the same back section but a different front then the front section would be worn out and the back section had lots of life left in it. If there was a comparison to be made the Viper goes head-to-head with the Quark as an all-round versatile tool that can be customised to suit your needs. The issue that we have with this trig-rest is that it is adjusted by using a trigger. Having said that they are awesome and I carry two all the time when ski touring and mountaineering on a glacier. Black Diamond Vipers? Change). These shaped shafts allow you to hook into holes and old tool placements in a way that was not possible with straighter shafts. On less steep terrain, it can be used as a piolet, with the ferrule plunged into the snow, even though it's a short, 50cm tool. Thanks for visiting Cascadeclimbers.com. Since I started climbing Water Ice some years ago, Ive found another set of Petzl tools I love Nomic. A great axe which anyone putting themselves to the test in the mountains or on the steep ice should consider. If you cant own one (because they certainly arent cheap), you can rent them for expeditions from the IMF in New Delhi (but, for some reason, they only have the Hammer version). Sign up for a new account in our community. That said I am Utah guy so I have certain loyalty to BD. Personally, I dont use one when cascade climbing but will use one when Scottish climbing and in an Alpine environment. It also has a hydroformed shaft, so it is really comfortable to hold the shaft in different positions. The spike at the base is nice and big so easy to use leash. Maybe even better than the Cobras. Fortunately or unfortunately, in India, the best gear is the gear you have, and the gear you can afford. The Cyborg is to Black Diamond as the G14 is to Grivel, a really solid crampon with adjustable vertically aligned front points. For classifieds, please use that forum. The old grip felt small enough to not really get stuck in crusty layers of snow the same way that double handle tools do. Its not so heavy that it tires me out, and its not so light that I have no heft in my swing. It has a really nice swing, and the pick always finds that satisfying thunk on the first swing. Givels Machine line of tools do share picks and hammer/adze accessories, but also do not have a pick weight option. When I want to climb some water ice or more technical terrain then I can easily swap this for the front of a Dart crampon which is Petzls most technical Monopoint crampon. This was the first spinner style leash that I used a few years back, with a few tweaks its now even better, the leash can be larks footed or clipped to the harness then there are two small locking krabs that are really neat. Things are beginning to change, but its still hard to find technical gear. I have narrowed down my choices to the Black Diamond Viper and the new version of the Petzl Quark. As youd expect from DMM, the Switch is beautifully crafted and if your choice is between the Apex and Switch, its going to be a hard one as both tools perform admirably well in their overlapping applications. Generally, the steeper the terrain the more radical the tool, however, the tools with extreme shafts are not so good on easier angled terrain. However, as just about everyone else has said in this thread, it's all down to personal preference. I obviously haven't had a chance to get on any ice with the new Quarks. Weighing in at 550 grams per tool with the hammer and adze they are just a bit lighter than the Black Diamond Vipers which weigh 570 grams. Really easy to set up as mono or duo points, the micro-adjust on the heel ensures a good fit, the Pro model comes with a wire toe bail (check this compatibility with your boots, a wider version is available) and the clip has plastic straps at the front for boots without a toe welt. The only situation where it seems like the folding pommel would be useful is when there are crusty layers of snow that the pommel might get caught on when using the tool as a cane. All in all, the Petzl Quark is a great tool, and if you can get your hands on a pair (even temporarily), go for it. One last thought: how much mixed are you going to be doing? Petzl has included this integration right across their range including their cord tech system where the front and back of the crampons is joined with Dyneema cord. If you are focusing on steep water ice then you can strip out the hammer or adze to make a smaller head. A really nice system from Petzl using a swivel system like the Black Diamond Spinner the only real difference is that Petzl use wire gate snap link krabs. The curved shaft makes the tool easier to use in the cane position vs double handled tools. Cams you need to be really careful using cams in the winter, any ice inside a crack can cause the cam to slip out, if it is loaded this failure is immediate and catastrophic. I don't think you'll be disappointed with either. The same can be said for crampons, vertically aligned front points and mono points have changed climbing and the models reviewed will take you anywhere you would want to go, they all come with anti-balling plates as standard now which makes moving around the mountains much more secure. Looks like this old climber is joining the 21 century, already in progress. As previously stated, the Quark have an adjustable trig-rest which acts as a pommel for a higher grip. The QUARK (Petzl capitalises all names for gear, I dont know if this is a French thing or a Petzl thing, but Im not going to do it) is a modular, technical ice tool, with a significant curve in the shaft. The picks are replaceable, and you can add a hammer or an adze to the tool, which takes the weight to 550 grams. Ice Hooks these are on the edge between ice and rock protection, originally designed for use in thin ice, too thin for a screw,they actually really come into their own in the Scottish environment where they can be hammered into iced or turfy cracks where nothing else will fit. I'd vote for the BDs because of this. While that might be advantageous on some terrain for general use it's a pain. We will post an update when Petzl gets back to us. The Quarks niche is supposed to be fast and light mountaineering, and the tools are definitely feel light in hand. Using old, janky gear on a hard route up Kang Yatse 1. If this is a concern check out the new iteration of the Petzl Quark which has a very clever solution. In order to fold the pommel up, a metal button must be depressed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Seems like a good way to injure finger tendons. By In the updated (2018 onwards) version, it folds in to make it easier to plunge into the snow. The Quark is as near to a modular tool as we have in the review being really simple to strip for weight or tech up for more technical outings. The link bars on the Petzl crampons have offset holes to allow for a precise fit, you can use a heel clip or strap system at the heel and wire or strap at the toe depending on the boots you are using. Which is why I decided, for my first review, Id review a piece of gear that I absolutely love, and is available here The Petzl Quark.I acquired my Quarks (oddly, before that, I didnt own ice axes, like many Indian climbers still dont) almost 10 years ago. Black Diamonds flicklock upper pommel does not have this issue. I recommend seeing if you can try one of each out before using it, just to get a better feel. When climbing in the Himalaya, its important to have both an Adze and a hammer. Climber magazine provides all you need to know about rock climbing - indoor and outdoor, mountaineering and bouldering. It's totally a matter of personal preference between the two, get your hands on one of both, get some swings in and see which feels better. The idea is really simple, the different parts of the different models of Petzl crampon are interchangeable and probably the best and most useful example of this would be to take the Vasak which is their classic and brilliant 12-point mountaineering crampon suitable for all types of mountaineering and easier climbing. That being said, my friend Bharat Bhushan uses these, and I think he doesnt like my Quarks. Powered by Invision Community. A fantastically versatile tool that is perfect for Scottish winter and cascades up to WI 4. Speaking of versatility, the Quark has numerous accessories that can be used to make it better suited for your climb. When I say mixed, I mean the origninal meaning of mixed - 'alpine mixed' not bolted sport climbs. Each print / digital issue and the website is packed with detailed coverage of key news, destination articles, interviews, gear reviews, Regular columnistsCaroline Ciavaldini and James Pearson, stunning photography, coaching and training. That you for your considered opinion. Ultimately, my opinion is this: the old grip rest did not seem like much of a problem so why try and fix it. by ExcitableBoy Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:54 pm, by alpinejason Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:35 pm, by Ski Mountaineer Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:02 pm, by ExcitableBoy Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:18 pm, Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests. The hole in the head is really big, this makes clipping the tool onto your harness or belay really easy and while a small thing adds to the usability of the tool. It's easy! Avery similar point configuration to the Vasak but with two vertically aligned front points that have a slight T-section as they approach the body of the crampon ensures a good grip on snow as well as hard ice. The tool is easily adapted so it can be plunged into soft snow in more mountaineering settings then easily deployed when the climbing gets more technical. The crampons below are all modular to a degree and there are more specialist lightweight mono points like the Grivel G21 and Black Diamond Stinger. includes discounted products from Rockfax. DMM Rebels? For ravines, light mix routes and mountaineering. We got our hands on the new versions of the Quark to see if Petzls new additions made any improvements to the already respectable fast and light ice tools. If you want the pommel of your second grip to be just above your typical grip, the trigger is in between your fingers. What really works for me is the weight and the profile. All these accessories make the Quark extremely customizable, and it would be even more worth your money if you already own a Petzl ice tool because of how convenient it is that everything is compatible. The Petzl Quark ice tools are extremely versatile tools and seem like a great choice if you are looking for fast and light mountain tools that can also handle unexpected moderate to vertical ice. http://www.backcountry.com/black-diamond-viper-hammer?ti=U2VhcmNoIFJlc3VsdHM6SWNlIHRvb2w6MTo3OkljZSB0b29s. Maybe you should be looking at the Nomic? However, now that the pin is missing it can freely rotate closed. Be it boots or ice tools, it comes down to how well it fits you. What happens when ice, dirt and sand gets into that mechanism? Gonna be very hard to find deals on the new Quarks. Its all about the right tool for the job. I've spent some time on both and they otherwise seem to climb the same. I don't think I've used leashes since my very first day of ice climbing. They can be difficult to remove but if they are that difficult to remove they were probably quite a good runner. Ultimately, the Quark is not the absolute lightest in its class, but it can get down to a very respectable (and usable) weight. Quark or Viper. I would say that the Quarks are a slightly more versatile tool, just with Petzl's head design, but they can be a little too light for some climbing. Decathlon, for a while, sold a tool called the Anaconda, which I quite liked. I went with the quarks since they were more comfortable in my hands. In the second partof this two-part review, we look at equipment suitable for harder winter climbing and Alpine routes. So, my wife has decided to start ice climbing again and since I gave away my ice tools and have been using hers the last couple of years that means I need a new pair. The older version of the Quark had a fixed lower pommel. The only downside is when trying to plunge the tools with radical shapes into snow when trying to climb over a cornice. Swing them, try them. WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS. Have you considered the Cassin/CAMP X-All Mountain? Petzls pick system is compatible with the Sumtec, Quark, Nomic, and Ergonomic. We tested the Pure Ice Pic which is amazing, the last 5cm are finely tapered to give the easiest possible placements in even the hardest ice, those looking for a more all-round pick should have a look at the Ice, the shape looks the same but doesnt have the same fine pick shape. The Viper is on sale at Backcountry for $191, and I really like it. One of the best tools out there. The issues with this tool lies in the small details. Still the same old community of climbers, skiers, and people who love to get outdoors. I lost one trigrest, and removed the other.The bottom of the tool has a spike (or ferrule), a fairly comfortable pommel which has a griprest, meaning you don't have to grip the tool hard when you pull on it. Leashless climbing has been adopted by pretty much every climber and while you can still buy wrist loops it is at least 10 years since I last used one. These tools feel really light from the off without stripping anything out, then if you are heading for a more mountaineering outing it is really easy to remove the adjustable trigger finger rest. Not much in disparity between the two. They are just easier to use making the placement of protection easier and hence making the climbing safer. The Givel North Machine also climbs well but does not have a pommel for a second grip which can cause some awkward moves when switching grips. The viper will do just fine as a mountaineering tool and feel more comfortable on mixed terrain however. A fantastic modular technical climbing crampon, the Dart can be set up as a mono point, duo point or offset duo by using a single bolt. The Quark comes equipped with Petzls Ice pick, which is their general ice or mixed pick. To any lovers of carbon fibre, this must be the sexiest ice tool in the market, the quality of workmanship in making the carbon shaft then glueing on the head is superb. Since then, Ive been fortunate enough to try a variety of ice axes of all types, on a variety of terrain, from straight shaft piolets to hyper aggressive ones for dry tooling. You might think another tool is better, and youll be right. I went with the Vipers purely because I found a pair on sale for $90.00 off of retail. These crampons are precise on rock and ice and will not be the limiting factor in your climbing this winter, their asymmetric shape was fantastic and the ease with which you could change out the front point or adjust the set-up really was superb. The pommel worked fine, it was a fixed pommel that didnt move so there was nothing to break or lose in order for it to function. It also doesnt have an Adze or a hammer though this is easily rectified by Petzls modular design. The advent of leashless climbing has revolutionised the sport, initially thought to be the preserve of the strongest climber they were quickly adopted by climbers at all levels. You can viewWinter and Alpine Hardware Review Part 1: Classic Ice Axes and Crampons byclickinghere. The shape of the tool made it somewhat difficult to climb over ice bulges and the grip rest was not the perfect shape to keep our hands effortlessly gripping the tool, but those are the trade-offs to making a tool more easily used in the cane position when mountaineering. Can it freeze in place, or rust and break? Thanks again for stopping by. All the fronts of the crampons are available separately. Honestly, it all comes down to the feel - Vipers are far more head-heavy, which makes them penetrate ice with less force, but are a little less precise than the Quarks. The curve on the shaft is very generous and we found that this made a big difference when the climbing got steep and ice started to bulge and cauliflower. In the fast and light category, the Black Diamond Vipers seem to be the best choice for now. Price is the same. I'm very happy with my Quarks. I will use the tools for winter alpine and mixed climbing and frozen waterfalls and am considering trying the leashless thing. There are a few alternatives to the Quarks. In terms of a classic mountaineering tool, the quark bears more of a resemblance. If I was buying new tools today I would go for a pair of Grivel Matrix Techs or Petzl Quarks for alpine mixed and ice, as well as a pair of Petzl Nomics for ice and mixed. To move it up or down the shaft, this trigger must be flipped up towards the pommel which will cause the rest to move freely up and down the shaft. The handle has been reworked so the rubber moulding comes up the shaft to form the second/higher grip. For waterfall ice, it still stands supreme. All rights reserved. The hammer can be used for pitons, but the few times Ive used it, I found it a bit small. While this is great on steep, tough, terrain, it makes plunging the tool into the snow hard (and who wants to make the last 100 meter snow slog to the summit hard?). The Apex is a great versatile tool, at home both on the steep icefalls and longer mountain test pieces. The Quark is a versatile tool. The tools come in a hammer or adze version, but these accessory are replaceable, even with the smaller hammer Mini Marteu. We found the handgrip to be particularly comfortable and the absence of a formed index finger grip, present on many technical axes, made little difference to the precision of the swing or positivity in the hand when hanging on the steep ice. You can add Grivels rotor karabiner to make a spinner system. The grip-rest mechanism can be prone to flaws. Available as a hammer or axe I would have liked the option to have a slightly larger adze for Scotland. I have placed enough pitons and hacked out enough belay ledges and bollards to appreciate a proper hammer and adze. The Black Diamond Vipers perform similarly on vertical ice. They are also available with a toe bail or straps. Im sure many of you will be jumping up and down saying you can do this with anyones crampons which is true, you could swap the front and backs of Grivels G12 and G14 crampons, but you would need to buy two complete sets of crampons to do this as the parts are not available individually. The flexible nature of the bar allows them to be fitted on a wider range of boots and makes them much more comfortable for walking. Ive used it on glacier ice upto 80 degrees, and it works beautifully. The Nomic is a brilliant steep ice tool and excels on steep mixed terrain and dry tooling, when Petzl decided to rework the Nomic I was really worried they would ruin it but they have actually improved it in many subtle ways. DPS, September 12, 2010 in The Gear Critic. Really, really, fantastic. For the new version Petzl decided to include a mechanism to allow this pommel to fold upwards, making to tool more streamlined for use in the cane position. The Grivel Candela does the same job but it is a bit long to fit in anything but a 22cm screw. The Quarks weight can also be reduced to 465 grams by removing all of the accessories. If you are going to make a V-thread then you will need a hook, you can use a bent wire coathanger, however, the Petzl Multihook is excellent and fits down the inside of an ice screw then with a bit of cord can be clipped into the carrying karabiner so you wont ever forget it. In reality, I found the tools so light generally that I couldnt be bothered and just kept them in standard mode, with the addition of the folding Griprest. Worst of all, it happened spontaneously out of the package during its first use so there is not much you can do to 100% prevent this from happening. One of my Quarks has an adze equipped, which in invaluable in clearing snow to place screws. It's possible the Quarks are better in some ways, but the Viper is truly exceptional, especially for the money. I've used both but prefer the quark as an all rounder. The new Vipers are very good tools. The Nomic set the standard for leash-less tools when it was released and the basic design is still intact, the latest version has a bigger handle and a metal grip on the base of the handle with a hole for a leash. The shaft uses hydroforming to create variable thickness which allows a variety of hand positions. The Quark would easily be able to handle ice rated at WI3 and below. The Quark has stood the test of time and is a superb all-round tool perfect for Scottish winter when the adjustable Grip rest will make topping out in soft snow or over a cornice much more secure, I would just like Petzl to make a bigger hammer and adze to improve functionality on the mountains. Though I have never had a pick work lose yet on a BD tool. Hope you had a great 2021, and wish you the best for 2022 and beyond.
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